I think we've gotten the Griffin question sorted out. I want to thank everyone who was
kind enough to answer my emails:
Sue Myles (A.K.A. "Auntie Sue"), the trainer who worked with me and Suzu and Koda when they first came into my life,
and his first owner, Pam.
I found an excellent reference source on all Nihon-ken (Japanese dogs) at
Japan Dog Export, via Shigeru Kato.
Here are the email
threads, in chronological order, more or less. I put some of the emails together, so the threads would be more sensible than if they were left in strict chronological order.
This email is the start of the whole thing:
Hello,
Just before last Christmas, I adopted Griffin, who was advertised as a
Shiba Inu. He is white, with red ear points, and a tinge of red on
his back and in his tail. He is also significantly larger than
the other male I owned, who weighed in at about 26 pounds. When I
took Grif in for his shots, he weighed in at 40#. While he is
reserved, he is less so that what I am used to in Shibas. He actually
has a habit of coming when called, which is not the behavior of the
Shibas I've known (unless it involved food).
I'm just wondering if there is any way for me to resolve this interesting
puzzle? My current best guess is that he is either a) a largish Shiba
Inu, or b) a slightly smallish Hokkaido.
Thanks,
Lee Webber
Sue was the first responder:
What about a Kishu Ken?
Wow.
This is sure interesting. He is not a Shiba or at least not like any
I have ever seen.
He
isn't an Akita Inu or a Tosa Inu (which is good)
Very
very interesting. I bet there is a Japanese dog dog show judge that
would be interested in this.
how
nice to hear from the town that has no Starbucks
I wrote back:
Heh.
The "no Starbucks" came out when I was describing this town
to a friend who's not from these parts.
I'm damned sure
he's not Shiba Inu. And I never would have suspected unless I'd
gotten bored this morning and went looking for books. Yay
random browsing.
I've got an e-mail into NAHA (North
American Hokkaido A'ss'n) asking for some advice. If he is
Hokkaido-Ken, he's extremely rare outside of Japan (I gather).
I've
read of "Cream" Shibas, which aren't recognized by the AKC
(their loss!) But size and temperament have pushed to the Ainu
camp. He's ~= 18" at his shoulder (I measured), so... . I'll
look up the other breeds just for grins.
And, keep you
posted.
Enjoying the newsletter, by the way! Thanks!!
Then, a second thought:
Kishu-Ken??
But
then, how did he wind up in the US??
The on "on
alert" here is Grif's twin.
And
a third thought:
The
previous question was really affirmative.
Sent a
note off to the kishuken-nel.com folks. Maybe they can suggest
resources up this-a-way.
To
which Sure replied:
Few people would be more
obsessive than this group.
Perfect
And
the a thought or two to the original addressees:
Had
an e-mail conversation w/ Auntie Sue (Suzu & Koda's trainer), and
she's not sure about Hokkaido. Further investigation makes me think
Kishu-ken:
Kishu Ken-Nel
Japan Dog Export.com
Wow!!
If
he is Kishu or Hokkaido, I find it sad that he's been
neutered. They are rare breeds, and it would have been
wonderful to bred him.
And, to the original addressees:
I'm
sending this on to you all, because, as my day has progressed, this
has gotten interestinger and interestinger! The web post has
the bulk of it, but not all of the links.
Enjoy the story!
Then
I sent this off to the folks who were involved in getting me
connected to Grif:
Hello!
I just wanted to bring you all up to date on Griffin.
He doing quite well, and has fit in wonderfully. He likes to sleep by
my bed for part of the night, but will *not* get up one it,
not stay on it if I put him up there. I have finally been able to get
him all current on his shots, and have had him chipped.
The
main reason I'm writing is the new mystery that surrounds him. I was
surprised that he weighed in at 40 pounds when he got his shots. That
is *way* over the norm for a Shiba Inu. He's also a couple of
inches outside of the normal height range for Shibas. His size,
color and general behavior contra-indicate his being a Shiba. I'm
going to refer you to a blog post I put up today for the long story,
but the short version is that my research on Japanese breeds, and a
discussion with my dog trainer friend, lead me to believe that Grif
is not a Shiba, but a Kishu!
He is a wonderful addition
to my household, and regardless of breed. I couldn't love him more!
Cheers!
I got this back from
the adoption rep I worked with:
Thanks for the great
update on Griffin. So happy he is so loved, no matter what he is,
LOL. Very interesting article. Thanks again for keeping in contact
and letting us all know things are well.
Diane
Then I received
this from the Kishu-ken group in Texas:
Hello
Lee......thanks for visiting the website. Where did you get
Griff? At first look he appears to be a large Shiba.....he is
actually small for a male Kishu Ken which usually are closer
to 50 lbs and 20 + inches. That's not to say there couldn't be
a small Kishu.
And
the Kishu Ken is so rare in the U. S. it is hard to believe one would
be in a "rescue" situation.
I
cannot help but wonder if he could possibly be a white
Jindo......Google "Jindo Dog" and look at the white ones.
He could also be a mix of Shiba or Akita with some other "spitz"
breed that gives him that look.
He
is certainly beautiful, whatever he is. You may never know for
sure what he is, but he looks like a great dog and that's what
matters.
Regards,
Carleen
Newman
Kishu
Ken-nel
Sue
had a thing to two to say about that:
Hi
Lee
jindo?
hmmm.....since he seems to be such a nice dog.......that does not
strike me as the right guess.
There
are quite a few jindos here in OC due to the Koreans, mostly up in
the Fullerton and La habra area. The ones that I have known I would
not get close to. I just stood in the house and looked at the dog in
the back yard.
But...no
matter what his official breed this is a lucky dog to have you. And
to know that he is such a sweet guy and can revel in his aged years.
but
this is an interesting journey to find out
I
sent another email to Carleen:
Hi, Carleen!
Thanks for getting back to me about Grif! I got him just
before Christmas last year, from a family the was splitting up and
moving out of their house, and no one could have dogs where they
were going. He had been neutered, but had not had his shots or been
chipped. He had a bald patch down this right side, from mid back to
his hip, from scraping himself on the bottom of the fence as he was
getting out.
From what little I've read about Jindos, I
doubt Griff is one - he'd not overly dominant, and seems to take to
strangers quite well. But, I don't know if that's training, age, or
temperament. He also looks "broader" than most of the
Jindos I saw pictured. He has rib cage that is slightly wider than
his shoulders. (See attached pic.) He does have some "Nihon-ken
red" on his ears and tail. It is also notable on his back in
the right light, but I don't think it matched the description of
Jindo coloration. The info I found here:
http://japandogexport.com/breeds/kishu-ken/
is what leads me to think is is Kishu-ken. Which, as you say,
raises the question of where he came from.
This is
what I posted when I got him home:
http://redlionwindow.blogspot.com/2014/12/say-hello-to-griffin.html
This
a fun and interesting puzzle, and even if I don't get it resolved,
it will not affect how I feel about him. He's just a great
dog.
Thanks again,
Lee
...who
responded
The
new pictures show Griff better.....he does have a Kishu "look"
about him......but he is smaller than most. No one in the
family that had him knew anything about him? What did they say
he was?.......or did they.
The
Kishu Ken does have "apricot" ears tips sometimes
and "apricot" down the back occasionally.
The
Jindo has similar coloration.......and temperament-wise the Jindo is
not always dominant and aggressive or aloof....they sometimes get a
bad rap that way. I have had both breeds and actually they are
very similar.
As
you say....he's a great companion and you may never know. Good
luck with him.
Regards......Carleen
The
last inbound emails I received were from the Hikkaido-ken
organization:
Hi,
you
out look like you have a larger Shiba Inu. He looks all Shiba to me,
and it isn't uncommon for the Shibas from pet stores/mill lines to be
larger than average. He's a lucky puppy to be adopted!
...and from
Grif's previous owner:
Aw,
I'm so so glad to hear that all is well with you and Grif. He
was sold to us as a pure bred Shiba, but that place later was known
as very shady.
Thank you so much
for sharing and keeping me in the loop!!! Best Wishes to you and your
4 legged family
So, today, I started
closing the loop:
Hi, Sue,
Just
following up on the Griffin question. I got an email from a
Hokkaido breeder I pinged. His take is that Grif is most probably a
Shiba, but from a puppy mill that wasn't too worried about
conformance standards. Thus, his size is not (apparently)
unusual. Cream is a non-standard color, so, I think I'm at "Grif
is just a big Shiba".
Cheers!
Lee
...which led to this
post!
And Griffin still doesn't care!